Charles LIVEING Esq. [258]

  General Notes:

"Uncle Charles went to school at Mr Mason's at Ipswich", his fathers friend Lord Bexley (the Honourable Nicholas Vansittart Chancellor of Exchequer and MP for Harwich Lord High Steward of Harwich) procured for Charles (who had been brought up as a farmer) the position of clerk In the National Debt Office, in which he rose to be Chief Clerk. (C Liveing was apprenticed to Mr Wallanger at Finborough, his father paid £100 per annum for his learning, wheat fell to £7 a load in 1822 and farming became a bad business). Liveing Archive, from notes by Edward Liveing 1870.

Charles Liveing Esq is noted in the Post Office Official Directory London 1846 as "First Clerk, Cheque Dept, Reduction of National Debt Office, 19 Old Jewry. He worked with Robert Liveing Fenn.

Charles had a long career with the National Debt Office. In 1961 a summary of extracts from the minutes of the meetings of The Commissioners for the Reduction of National Debt was compiled, covering a period between 1786 and 1860. This was searched in 2003 by E. L. Fenn and the following references to Charles extracted. The National Record Office Kew have pay records under Ref: NDO 9/5.
1 July 1818: 175th meeting. Charles Liveing promoted to sixth clerk salary L140 per annum.
30 December 1818: The bond of Charles Liveing of £1000 was approved. (The bond was a security against embezzlement or theft)
30 March 1841: 286th meeting. A report on the holdings of bills by the Commissioners, signed by Charles Liveing, check officer, was tabled.
3 July 1851: 327th meeting. Mr C. Liveing, the first clerk in check branch, was granted three months sick leave on a medical certificate, he was suffering from serious symptoms arising from long continued mental exertion, serious consequences are to be apprehended unless he stopped work.
10 October 1851: 328th meeting. By simultaneous letters in parallel it was approved that Mr C. Liveing first clerk in the check branch, to succeed as head of that branch. He had been upwards of 31 years in The National Debt Office and should be appointed at the salary of L600. (Charles promotion was the last under a system of seniority, a major office reorganisation at that time, declared future senior posts be filled by selection.)
4 July 1855. Mr Liveing reappointed principal check officer. Mr Liveing and Mr Clark, principal clerk's to be also assessors of property tax on life annuities, and staff salaries.
5 July 1856. The secretary reported Mr Charles Liveing principal check officer has been compelled on grounds of health (two medical certificates) to tender his resignation. He did so with great regret. The department will thus be deprived of the services of an officer who has superintended and directed this important branch as to deserve the marked approbation of his superiors. The resignation was accepted and Mr Liveing's case for superannuation was put to the Treasury in the most favourable terms. Note: an award of L500 was recorded at the next meeting, a Mr Bott took Charles position.

The London and Provincial Law Assurance Society.
Actuaries - Charles Liveing Esq . . . . .
Ref: The Morning Chronicle page 4, 15th November 1845.

Tithe Apportionment:
Owner: Charles Liveing Esq. Occupier: William Green Munnings. Parish of Nayland SFK. 6 November 1839. Plots . 64 - 69 - 179 - 196 - 198 a house garden barn and arable land comprising 13 Acres 0 Roods 28 Perches Tithe: Vicar L 16s 6d, Impropriator L4 3s 0d IR 29/33/299, 2 December 1845
Ref: The Genealogist.

Tithe Apportionment:
Owner: Charles Liveing Esq. Occupier: William Green. Parish of Stoke by Nayland SFK. 26 April 1838. Plots . 712 - 715 comprising 21 Acres 3 Roods 18 Perches Tithe: Vicar L1 5s 7d, Impropriator Patrick Mannock Esq. L5 5s 0d IR 29/33/382, 2 December 1845
Ref: The Genealogist.

1851 Census Essex, Lexden shows Charles Liveing aged 53 born Harwich ESS, a visitor at the home of his brother-in-law John Ambrose of 1 London Turnpike Rd. Copford Parish ESS - Folio 435. Charles is recorded as a clerk at the National Debt Office.

Royal Female Philanthropic Society.
Stewards.
Charles Liveing Esq., . . . . .
Ref: extracted from the Daily News 10th June 1851

New Schools for St Matthias, Weir, Bristol.
Appeal for funds.
A Charles Liveing gave five guineas.
Ref: The Bristol Mercury 21 April 1855

Charles Liveing married Ref: Lambeth 1d 269 March Qtr 1857 to Elizabeth Young,

Charles lived at Denmark Hill Camberwell SRY, his will was Proved 19 June 1858 by the Rev Henry Thomas Liveing of Bedfont MDX Clerk, and James Beaumont 19 Lincoln Inns Field, Executors, at under L20,000. - to be searched

Essex Record Office D/P 26/28/6
Parish records DEDHAM, ST. MARY THE VIRGIN
Dates of Creation 9 February 1836
Scope and Content:
Copy of will of Nicholas Freeman of Rivers Hall, Boxted, esq., 23 July 1835 Gives L100 each to Nicholas Freeman and John Freeman, both of Dedham, Anne w. of Peter Clarke of Colchester, William Cooper Clarke s. of Peter Clarke, William s. of Henry Parson of Stoke-by-Nayland (co. Suffolk) and Charles Liveing of Camberwell (co. Surrey). Bequeaths all property and residue of estate to w.Hannah
Exors.: Hannah Freeman and Charles Liveing

St Clements
Church Street,
Ipswich.
Ref Ipswich RO D/DU 206/14 (2003 copy on file)

Charles had numerous business interests, see Research Notes for his brother Edward.

Died.
29th ult at Brighton, Charles Liveing, Esq, late of the National Debt Office, for many years a patron of the Aldham and United Parishes Insurance Society.
Ref: Chelmsford Chronicle 9 April 1858.

Death ref Mar quarter 1858 Brighton 2b 128 BDM

Norwood Cemetery Register gives his Denmark Hill address and his age at 60

Image: Liveing Family Archive 2005

  Research Notes:

Charles birth date is unproved, but Charles is refered to as a son by his mother Harriet in a letter to his brother dated 1823, in reference to some dissension amongst her sons. Also refered to in a letter by his niece Frances Liveing dated 29 Sept 1842 from Camberwell London.

The Office of the National Debt issued gilt-edged Government Bonds created as a temporary measure to fund the American and Napolonic Wars, interest paid was underwritten from income tax. The bonds were bought for pensions etc, many people of the day were classified as annuitants holding 3 or 4% Gilts in one form or another.
The Debt Management Office is now part of The Treasury.
Its address is Eastcheap Court, 11 Philpot Ln. London EC3M 8UD.
Press Officer Steve Whiting
Ref Colin Fenn 2003

Charles is executor with his brother Henry of the Will of Thomas Churchman Harrold.
In 1851 he instigates proceedings on the matter:

Cause number: 1851 L32. Short title: Liveing v Arnold. Documents: Bill, four answers,...
Reference:C 14/1256/L32
Description: Cause number: 1851 L32.
Short title: Liveing v Arnold.
Documents: Bill, four answers, replication.
Plaintiffs: Charles Liveing and another.
Defendants: Walter Aldous Le Neve Arnold, Helen Mary Arnold (later Helen Mary Norton wife of Charles Lowis Norton), William Herbert Mayo, Herbert Mayo, John Harman, Mary Ann Mayo, Jane Catherine Mayo and Charles Erskine Mayo.
Provincial solicitor employed in Middlesex
Note:Details have been added from C 32/ 204 , which also gives information about further process
Date:1851
Held by:The National Archives, Kew

Cause number: 1851 L63. Short title: Liveing v Harrold. Documents: Bill, certificate,...
Reference:C 14/1258/L63
Description: Cause number: 1851 L63.
Short title: Liveing v Harrold.
Documents: Bill, certificate, two answers, bill, answer.
Plaintiffs: Charles Liveing and another.
Defendants: Ewen Baillie Harrold and Peter Le Neve Arnold.

Supplemental bill filed 1852. Same plaintiffs. Defendant: Charles Lewis Norton.
Provincial solicitor employed in Middlesex
Note:Details have been added from C 32/ 204 , which also gives information about further process
Date:1851
Held by:The National Archives, Kew


SpSt/177/28
Barnsley Archive and Local Studies Department
Title:Reconveyance
Description:
Alderman Manning of Dedham, Essex, esq., of the first part: Charles Liveing of Camberwell, Surrey, esq., Rev. Henry Thomas Liveing of Nayland, Suffolk, clerk, and Robert Liveing Fenn of Camberwell Grove, Surrey, gent., of the second part: Richard James Marsh of Lower Belgrave Place, Pimlico, co. Middlesex, gent., of the third part: John Pike of Old Burlington Street, co. Middlesex, gent., and John Christian Wittick of Bath Terrace, Camberwell Rd., Surrey, gent., of the fourth part.
Reciting deeds as follows.
(i) Mortgage of 4 and 5 Aug 1829.
(ii) Deed of further mortgage indorsed thereon, 20 Sep 1830.
(iii) Death of Thomas Newman, 13 Dec 1837, and of Robert Marratt Miller, 18 Jun 1839.
(iv) Will of George Marsh, 27 Dec 1825 and codicils of 23 Oct 1829 and 22 May 1833.
(v) Death of George Marsh, 11 Dec 1833.
(vi) Chancery decree 8 Apr 1837, which declared that the trusts of Marsh's will ought to be executed, and it was ordered that the estates in Essex be sold to pay mortgage principal due on mortgage of 4,5 Aug 1829. If insufficient money were raised, then part of the Yorkshire Estate was also to be sold.
(vii) The sale of the Essex estates for £885, minus £95 for legal fees.
(viii) In Feb 1838, Miller and Manning filed a suit against Marsh for repayment of the principal still due, and a Chancery decree was issued 1 Mar 1839, which concerned taxation of all parties concerned for their costs out of the £790 residue from the above sale.
(ix) Bill in Chancery 10 May 1839, which certified that £338 7/2 interest was due on the principal sums and this, together with costs of £418 6/-, were paid out of the £790, which left £33 6/10d.
(x) Indenture of transfer, 16 Jan 1840, by which Manning assigned to Edward, Charles, Henry Thomas, and Robert Liveing, the above principal sums.
(xi) Order in Chancery of 19 Mar 1841, for the sale of part of the Yorkshire estates, which was done on 6 Oct 1841, for £3,487.
(xii) Report of 14 Jan 1843 which stated that there was still owing, £2395 1/8 (being principal and interest).
(xiii) Death of Edward Liveing, Mar 1843.
(xiv) Order in Chancery of 24 May 1843 by which all interest, £370 1/8, is to be paid to Charles, Henry Thomas and Robert Liveing.
Reciting also that all taxes and costs have also been paid, and that all parties have agreed to the reconveyance of the lands.
By this indenture, all lands fully described in the above mortgages are reconveyed to Richard James Marsh.
To specified uses.
For £2,081 8/5.
Schedule of the property at the end.
Date:10 Aug 1843
Held by:Barnsley Archive and Local Studies Department, not available at The National Archives
Language:English

  Other Records

1. Charles Liveing: His appointment to the National Debt Office, 30 Dec 1818, London.
Liveing Archive

Minutes of the 177th meeting of Commissioners of the National Debt Office 30 December 1818.
. . . . . Charles Liveing to be paid for one quarter at £80 p.a. And to be placed on the establishment from 10 October 1818 as 6th clerk at 140 pa
S Higham Secretary.

The National Debt Commissioners Act 1818
An Act to empower any Three or more of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt to exercise all the Powers and Authorities given to the said Commissioners by any Act or Acts of Parliament.
http://www.dmo.gov.uk/index.aspx?page=CRND/ND_Commissioners

Charles Liveing was appointed to this position on the recommendation of his fathers friend Lord Bexley, Chancellor of the Exchequor, Charles had been a farmer! Later Robert Liveing Fenn on the recommendation of Charles also obtained a Clerkship at the National Debt Office.

2. Charles Liveing: Letter from R R Newson Tenant, 17 Jan 1838, Ipswich, SFK.
Essex R.O. D/DU 206/14

Charles appears to have had residential property in Ipswich as the following letter indicates:
To
Charles Liveing Esq.
National Debt Office
Old Jewry
London.

Ipswich 17th Jan 1838.
Sir,
I have this day paid into the firm of Messrs Alexander & Co. Bankers in Ipswich, the sum of Thirty Pounds for you to receive of Messrs Barnetts & Co Bankers, Lombard St. London.
I have now again to call your attention to the serious and heavy loss which happened to the premises which I now hold under you in Ipswich which loss I had to bear and sustain, and the particulars of which I have heretofore brought under your notice - and last Thursday two of the Tenants left two of the cottages in debt two quarters rent each.
I do not take the money of the Tenants of the cottages which I allow you - but I well know it is my own fault for agreeing to pay £16-0-0 a year.
I shall be very glad when my lease expires, for I am sure I would not give you more than £12-0-0 a year for the premises for another seven years were they now to lett - and especially to keep the same in repair.
If anything touching the amounts between us is found to be incorrect I shall be happy to have the same corrected at my next years payment.
I am Sir
your obedient humble servant
Richard R Newson.

3. Census: England, 7 Jun 1841, Denmark Hill St Giles Camberwell SRY. Charles is recorded as aged 40 a civil servant not born in SRY

4. Charles Liveing: The National Debt Office London and Charles signature.
The Office of the National Debt issued gilt-edged Government Bonds created as a temporary measure to fund the American and Napolonic Wars, interest paid was underwritten from income tax. The bonds were bought for pensions etc, many people of the day were classified as annuitants holding 3 or 4% Gilts in one form or another.
The Debt Management Office is now part of The Treasury.
Its address is Eastcheap Court, 11 Philpot Ln. London EC3M 8UD.

5. Census: England, 30 Mar 1851, Copford ESS. Charles is described as a visitor a brother-in-law to John Ambrose married aged 53 a Clerk at the National Debt Office born Harwich ESS

Charles married Mary Ann BEAUMONT [264] [MRIN: 7], daughter of John BEAUMONT [14781] and Mary Ann BENNETT [14782], on 24 Aug 1826 in St Michael Paternoster Royal LND. (Mary Ann BEAUMONT [264] was born about 1801, died on 24 Jun 1855 in Denmark Hill St Giles Camberwell SRY and was buried on 30 Jun 1855.)

Charles next married Elizabeth YOUNG [22715] [MRIN: 8165], daughter of Vice Admiral William YOUNG [22716] and Ann SPENCER [22717], on 8 Jan 1857 in St Mathews Denmark Hill Camberwell SRY. (Elizabeth YOUNG [22715] died on 14 Nov 1875 in Herstmonceux Place SSX.)